The below is just a curious comparison.  On the left is one of Rybakov’s “Jashers”.  On the right, is a find from  the Saint Ninian’s Isle treasure (dated to about 800 AD).

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Here is the split between Centum and Satem languages.

The split has for a long while now been seen as rather artificial but the map is worth looking at for another reason – look south, at the cut off of the Indo-European languages in India.  Why do they stop there?  Well, maybe because there are mountains there – not terribly huge mountains but nevertheless.  So why does that matter?  Check out the name of that mountain range.  They are the Vindhya Range.

In fact, after India’s independence an administrative region in the area was named Vindhya Pradesh (since abolished).

And here is a map of two types of names containing:

• Odra/Adra – also A/Od/t/ro/a/e RED
• Warta – also Vart/a/e/o BLUE

Thietmar of Merseburg mentions this humorous episode that occurred to his immediate predecessor at Merseburg, the Bishop Boso of Bavaria.  Boso apparently tried to teach Christianity to the Slavs in their own tongue but also required them to be singing kyrie eleison in the original Greek.  This did not go so well.

Thietmar’s Chronicle Book 2, 37

“Boso wrote his instructions for the faith in Slavic to make them more accessible to those who had been committed to him.  He also demanded the singing of the kyrie eleison, after explaining what it meant.  The fools mockingly changed this to ukrivolsa which, translated into our language, means ‘the alder stands in the bush’.  As often as he tried to correct them, they replied, ‘so has Boso spoken.’  The emperor granted him a few villages which belonged to the previously mentioned city [Merseburg] and also a certain burg in the district of Schkeuditz, called Medeburu, which means ‘protect the honey.’  The emperor’s like-named son also gave him a church in Helfta.  The church had been established in honour of Saint Radegund by his father…”

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So where were we?

And then what happened?

?

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We have discussed some of the “Jassa” rivers in the “West”.  Some but, of course,  not all.  Take for example, the river Jeetzel (or Jetze in the higher parts) which is yet another “ash” river firmly in Germany (the source is around Rappin northeast of Wolfsburg).  It is a (western) tributary of the Elbe.  According to the current description in Wikipedia the name may be derived from the ash trees (in which case it’s Slavic) or maybe from the Germanic geza as in “boiling” water (is it very hot?):

“Der Flussname ist möglicherweise slawischen Ursprungs und würde sich in diesem Fall vom alt-slawischen jasenu (poln. jesion) herleiten, was so viel wie Eschenbach bedeutet. Dies könnte daher rühren, dass die Flussränder von Eschen und Erlen-Eschen-Wäldern gesäumt waren. Eine alternative Erklärung ist die Ableitung aus dem germanischen geza (gären, wallen, in die Höhe gehen).”

Jeetzel at Wendland from the Wendland tourist website

Apparently, in 1660 its name was Jetza (as per the Tractatus describing the then Reich):

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We have previously observed that Adam of Bremen places the Winnuli on the Odra during historic times, which if true would certainly refer to Slavs.  However, Winnili is, as per Paul the Deacon, the “old” name of the Langobards.  How are these to be reconciled?  A few observations are in order.

First, interestingly the name is perhaps related to the Gothic vinja that is “pasture”.  Whether that also tells us something about the Veneti is unknown.

Second, it is not at all impossible that the Scandinavian invaders renamed (like the Rus renaming the Polyane, with their own name Rus).

Third, the name is remarkably similar to that of the Venelli/Unelli.

“[The Veneti] fortify their towns, convey corn into them from the country parts, bring together as many ships as possible to Venetia, where it appeared Caesar would at first carry on the war. They unite to themselves as allies for that war, the Osismii, the Lexovii, the Nannetes, the Ambiliati, the Morini, the Diablintes, and the Menapii; and send for auxiliaries from Britain, which is situated over against those regions.” (Julius Caesar, On the Gallic War, Book 3, 9).

“[Caesar] sends Q. Titurius Sabinus his lieutenant, with three legions, among the Unelli, the Curiosolitae, and the Lexovii, to take care that their forces should be kept separate from the rest. He appoints D. Brutus, a young man, over the fleet and those Gallic vessels which he had ordered to be furnished by the Pictones and the Santoni, and the other provinces which remained at peace; and commands him to proceed toward the Veneti, as soon as he could. He himself hastens thither with the land forces.” (Julius Caesar, On the Gallic War, Book 3, 11).

It is the Venelli/Unelli that are led by their chieftain Viridovic (rather not Viridovix).

A number of tribal names should be interesting on the map here:

• Venelli
• Veneti (of course)
• Ossismii (the “last” ones, e.g., ostatni)
• Lexovii (“x” like “h”?)
• Lingones
• Bellovaci (white cow tribe or pretty cow tribe :-))
• Morini (people who live by the sea – see Slavic more = sea; note also the -in suffix)
• Eburones (Lugi Buri connection?)
• Senones (similar to Suevi Semnones?)
• Nervii (aside from the connection to the river Narew, there is the obvious connection to the town of Narva which is, apparently, of Veps origin – meaning “waterfall”; on the genetic similarity between the Veps people and the Poles of all people, see here)
• Lemovices – note that the Lemovi are present – on the Baltic (!) right next to the Rugii in Germania.
• Vellavi
• Ruteni (!)
• Namnetes/Nemetes

(We are not touching the Diablintes).  We are by no means suggesting that these tribes were somehow Slavic (e.g., Namnetes/ Nemetes!) – nevertheless, the similarity of some names is at least interesting.  There is also an interesting North-bias to these names.

Note that similarly interesting names also appear among the Celts in Italy (including Boii like the Boii of Bohemia and the Senones and, of course, the Taurini with the town of Torino named after them).

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Now that we are done with our venting (so to speak) we look for additional topics.  Before we get there, some off the top remarks, however:

Those who have followed our Water of Jassa here and here as well as our little puzzle, will enjoy our threading these topics together.  For your amusement, note that the River Thames on which sits the town of London, etc., was, apparently, also known as Thame-Issa.  Why?  It seems that this is result of the River Thame combining with the River Isis – hence Thame & Issa.  A part of it was, according to one , called *(p)lowonida (the Indo-European roots *pleu- “flow” and *-nedi “river”?  See the rivers Nida).  And a potsherd found nearby bears the name Tamesubugus fecit – that is, supposedly, the name of someone Tamesubugus who made the original pot.  Actually, what it says is TΛ·MII·SV·BV·GVS·FII·[…]  The II is supposed to be an “e” and hence “fe” and hence “fecit”.  Oddly, we know a River Bug from the Belorussian border.  Whether it means something like “God” because of its similarity with Bog is to be doubted (does Bug have anything to do with beugen (what you do when you run but also when you bend the knee in front of  a deity) rather than the Iranian bhaga?  So many possibilities.

There is also the question of the city on the river Bug, i.e., Brest – former Brest Litovsk (to distinguish it from other Brests in Slavic lands of which there are plenty).

Of course, there is also another Brest – unsurprisingly in Bretagne.  Are all those Brests Slavic/Suavic/Venetic?

If you’re reading this you have a dirty mind

And that’s before we even get to Dover – a Celtic word having something to do with water.  Fair enough, but wouldn’t we then suspect a reconstructed (hypothetical) Celtic *dubro– in the city of Dubrovnik too (rather than having anything to do with oaks)?

And what of Londonbyrig? The brig is supposedly like a “borough” or “burgh” and is Saxon.  But weren’t there Angles there too?  You know, the Suevi Angli?  Does it have anything to do with the shore (berg)?  Maybe, although this is hard to tell since most burghs would have been built on a river or lake to access water.

For this reason the question of whether -ava really means water is also tangly and needs a “fresh” look.

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On the Largest Part of Germania

• “I must now proceed to speak of the Suevians, who are not, like the Cattans and Tencterians, comprehended in a single people; but divided into several nations all bearing distinct names, though in general they are entitled Suevians, and occupy the larger share of Germany” (Nunc de Suevis dicendum est, quorum non una, ut Chattorum Tencterorumve, gens; maiorem enim Germaniae partem obtinent, propriis adhuc nationibus nominibusque discreti, quamquam in commune Suevi vocentur)
  • Tacitus Germania (circa A.D. 98)

• “On its east is Alania, in its centre Dacia, where Gothia is also found, then comes Germany, the greater part of which is held by the Suevi.” (ab oriente Alania est, in medio Dacia, ubi et Gothia, deinde Germania est, ubi plurimam partem Suevi tenent.)
  • Paulus Orosius, Against the Pagans (circa A.D. 416-417)

• “Slavia is a very large province of Germany inhabited by the Winuli who at one time were called Vandals.  It is said to be ten times larger than our Saxony, especially if you count as part of Slavia Bohemia and the expanses across the Oder, the Poles, because they differ neither in appearance nor in language.” (Sclavania igitur, amplissima Germaniae provintia, a Winulis incolitur, qui olim dicti sunt Wandali.  Decies maior esse fertur, quam nostra Saxonia, praesertim si Boemiam et eos qui trans Oddaram sunt Polanos, quia nec habitu, nec lingua discrepant, partem adieceris Sclavaniae)
  • Adam of Bremen, Deeds of the Bishops of Hamburg (circa A.D. 1073 – 1076)

On the Aestii [aka “Balts”]

• “Turning, therefore, to the right hand shore of the Suebian sea, we find it washing the country of the Aestii, who have the same customs and fashions as the Suevi, but a language more like the British.” (Ergo iam dextro Suevici maris litore Aestiorum gentes adluuntur, quibus ritus habitusque Suevorum, lingua Britannicae proper)
  • Tacitus Germania (circa A.D. 98)

Minna Sundberg’s picture in the Guardian newspaper

• The Sclavi, the Aestii and other peoples live along the southern shore.”  (At litus australe Sclavi et Aisti et aliae diversae incolunt nationes)
  • Einhard Vita Caroli Magni (circa  A.D. 817 – 836)

• “The Osti have, to the north of them, the same arm of the sea, and also the Wends [Sclavi]” (Osti habbað be norþan him þone ilcan sæs earm, and Winedas)
  • King Alfred’s “Orosius” (circa A.D. 890s )

Caesarius of Nazianzus (circa 330 – circa 369) was a physician, a politician and, later in life a quaestor under Emperor Valens (the one killed by the Goths at Adrianople in 378).  He is considered a saint in both the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox church.  His relevance for us is that he may have composed a set of “Dialogues” – a series of didactic questions and answers on various topics.

We say “may have” because his authorship of the same has been questioned.   The original claim for Caesarius’ authorship of the Dialogues comes from Photius, an eight century Patriarch of Constantinople who said that, according to tradition, these were written by a brother of Saint Gregory of Naziansus (Codex 210 of Photius’ Bibliotheca).  That brother would have been Caesarius.  However, this claim has been disputed since Gregory, who outlived Caesarius, does not mention in his panegyric the Dialogues as a book that his brother had written and, more importantly, since – apparently – certain statements in the book suggest it may have been written later as in the 5th or 6th century.  For that reason the author is also referred to occasionally as Pseudo-Caesarius. (was it Caesarius of Arles? (circa 470-542)).

What is interesting is that the Dialogues mention the Slavs and the Lombards.  If Caesarius of Naziansus was the author he would be the first one mentioning the Slavs (but see here) – even ahead of Procopius and Jordanes.  But, even if he was not, and the Dialogues were written later they would still be one of the earliest sources on the Slavs.

In the passage the author questions the validity of the so-called theory of climes (i.e., that various peoples’ disposition depended on where they lived – that is, in what climate).  Caesarius compares the outrageous Slavs with the gentle Physonites (think Morlocks & Eloi).

The passage in question is in the 110th Q&A – shown here from Jacques Paul Migne’s Patrologia Graeca (Patrologiae Cursus Completus, Series Graeca) volume 38 (Dialogues II, 985/986):

“Why is it that those who live at the end of the world, Slavs and Physonites* who are also called Danubians; [why] some of these people eat the breasts of women (since they are full of milk) and smash unweaned babes on rocks like rats while the others refuse to eat even the clean meat which the law allows?  And some of these are daring, independent and won’t be led by any government; frequently, they kill their leaders at mealtime or during an expedition; and they eating foxes and wild cats and pigs; and they signal to one another by howling like wolves; whereas the others abstain from gluttony/piggishness and give themselves up/subject themselves to any leader?”

The Slavs are Coming!

“Aut quomodo in sectione alia ejusdem tractus Sclaveni et Physonitae qui et Danubiani appellantur, alii quidem ubera mulierum libenter comedunt, quod plena lacte fuerint, instar murium infantes saxis allidentes; alii vero etiam a legitimo et irreprehensibili carnium esu abstinent? Qui eorum alii praefracti sunt, suo jure viventes absque cujusquam imperio, ac nonnunquam comedentem secum vel iter facientem principem sujum interficientes, vulpes et silvestres feles porcosque comedentes, et luporum utulatu se provocantes; alii vero a voracitate abstinent, et cuivis principi se subjicientes obediunt?”

* Physonites because the Danube was seen by the writer as the Biblical Physon of the Garden of Eden in this comparison.

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This excerpt is from a 1987 article in “Slovene Studies” by Jakov Bačić of Astoria, Queens, New York City – all of which you can peruse here. Bačić seems to have developed this idea while writing his PhD dissertation at Columbia University (see Jakov Bacic “The emergence of the Sklabenoi (Slavs), their arrival on the Balkan Peninsula, and the role of the Avars in these events: Revised concepts in a new perspective”).

However, oddly, he seems not to have been aware of the fact that his additional step of converting a Solava > Sava would be unnecessary if one were to look for an actual, uncorrupted Solava.  Or, as we think, Souava.

And where more perfect to look but where the ancient River Suevus used to flow… Of course, all of this could just be one frothy coincidence.

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