Category Archives: Slovenes

Jonas of Bobbio’s “The Life of Columban”

PublishedMay 30, 2016 Post authortorino

Saint Columban (or Columbanus) was an abbot and missioner. He was born in Leinster (Ireland), circa 543; died circa 615 at Bobbio, Italy, a monastery which he founded. His feast day is November 23. The “Life of Columban” (Vita Columbani) by the monk Jonas of Bobbio contains the first mention of Slavs in the West: “ueneticorum qui & sclaui dicuntur“

We introduce that work here along with an introduction about Jonas by D.C. Munro who is the work’s translator. We also include the sections referring to the Suevi. The pics are from the Saint Gallen Codex 553. [*Note that, although Columban was also known as “Columba”, Columban is distinct from Saint Columba, who was founder of Iona, who was born in 521, and died in 597, and whose feast day is June 9.]

Introduction by D.C. Munro

“During the sixth and seventh centuries the greatest missionary activity was shown by the Scots who dwelt in Ireland. In that country religion was cherished with greater zeal than elsewhere, and learning was fostered for the sake of the Cchurch. But not content with the flourishing state of Christianity in their own island, the most zealous monks often passed over to the continent. There even the nominal Christians were little inclined to follow the precepts of the religion which they professed. Gaul especially attracted the attention of the bold missionaries from Ireland, and the Irish usages became well established in some parts of lie country. Unfortunately almost all the accounts of the missionaries from Ireland have been lost; consequently this biography of Columban is of great value.”

Bobbio

“Jonas, the author of this “Life”, became a monk at Bobbio, in northern Italy, three years after Columban’s death. He was soon employed on this biography, for which he obtained material, as he himself said, from the stories told by the saint’s companions. Living as be did, among the, latter, his account reflects their feelings faithfully, and we may be certain that he has recorded the events accurately, and often reproduced the saint’s own words. As is usual in such biographies, the miracles are numerous; for the contemporaries these formed the most valuable portions; for modern students they are full of instruction, and throw much light on the daily life of the monks.”

Sections of “Life of Saint Columban”
by the Monk Jonas of Bobbio

Section 15

“While the holy man was wandering through the dark woods and was carrying on his shoulder a book of the Holy Scripture, he happened to be meditating. And suddenly the thought came into his mind, to which he would prefer, to suffer injuries from men or to be exposed the rage of wild beasts. While he thought earnestly, frequently signing his forehead with the sign of the cross and praying, he decided that it was better to suffer from the ferocity of wild beasts, without any sin on their part, than from the madness of men who would lose their souls.”

And while he was turning this over in his mind he perceived twelve wolves approaching and standing on the right and on the left, while he was in the middle. He stood still and said: ‘Oh, God, come to my aid. Oh, Lord, hasten to aid me!’ They came nearer and seized his clothing. As he stood firm they left him unterrified and wandered off into the woods.”

“Having passed through this temptation in safety, he continued his course through the woods. And before he had gone far he heard the voices of many Suevi, wandering in the hidden paths. At this time they were robbing in those places. And so at length by his firmness, having dismissed the temptation, he escaped the misfortune. But he did not know clearly whether this was some of the devil’s deceit or whether it had actually happened. At another time he withdrew from his cell and entering the wilderness by a longer road he found an immense cliff with precipitous. There he perceived a hollow sides and rocky paths difficult for men. in the rock. Entering to explore its hidden recesses he found in the interior of the cave the home of a bear, and the bear itself. He ordered the beast to depart and not to return to that place again. The beast mercifully went, nor did she dare to return again. The place was distant from Anegray seven miles more or less.”

Section 53

“At length they arrived at the place designated, which did not wholly please Columban; but he decided to remain, in order to spread the faith among the people, who were Swabians.”

“Once as he was going through this country, he discovered that the natives were going to make a heathen offering. They had a large cask that they called a cupa [cubam], and that held about twenty-six measures, filled with beer and set in their midst. On Columban’s asking what they intended to do with it, they answered that they were making an offering to their God Wodan [uadono] (whom others call Mercury).”

“When he heard of this abomination, he breathed on the cask, and lo! it broke with a crash and fell in pieces so that all the beer ran out. Then it was clear that the devil had been concealed in the cask, and that through the earthly drink he had proposed to ensnare the souls of the participants. As the heathens saw that, they were amazed and said Columban had a strong breath, to split a wellbound cask in that manner. But he reproved them in the words of the Gospel, and commanded them to cease from such offerings and to go home.”

“Many were converted then, by the preaching of the holy man, and turning to the learning and faith of Christ, were baptized by him. Others, who were already baptized but still lived in the heathenish unbelief, like a good shepherd, he again led by his words to the faith and into the bosom of the church.”

Section 56

“Once Columban though going to the land of the Wends, who are also called Slavs, in order to illuminate their darkened minds with the light of the Gospel and to open the way of truth to those who had always wandered in error.”

“When he proposed to make his vows, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a vision, and showed him in a little circle the structure of the world, just as the circle of the universe is usually, drawn with a pen in a book. ‘You perceive,’ the angel said, ‘how much remains set apart of the whole world. Go to the right or the left where you will, that you may enjoy the fruits of your labors.’ Therefore Columban remained where he was, until the way to Italy opened before him.”

Jassa of the Veneti

PublishedApril 13, 2016 Post authortorino

A claim has been made that the Veneti worshipped – as their Sun God – Jason or maybe Jasion/Iasion. This claim, if true, would, combined with the reports of the Polish God Jassa and the Czech God Chasson (identified, at least in Jan Rosa’s Grammatica Linguae Bohemicae, as a sun God, that is Sol or Phoebus or Astron), suggest that at least these two nations were in fact connected with the Veneti or perhaps descend from the Veneti.

What’s more, because the claim was made regarding the Adriatic Veneti, this would not only further strengthen the Slavic-Venetic connection but, in fact, expand it all the way to Venice – no doubt helping “Venetologists” such as Matej Bor.

But, as regards the Adriatic Veneti at least, is the claim true?

What Says Strabo?

Strabo does say (Book V, I):

“And in the very recess of the Adriatic there is also a temple of Diomedes that is worth recording, “the Timavum“; for it has a harbour, and a magnificent precinct, and seven fountains of potable waters which immediately empty into the sea in one broad, deep river. According to Polybius, all the fountains except one are of salt water, and what is more, the natives call the place the source and mother of the sea. But Poseidonius says that a river, the Timavus, runs out of the mountains, falls down into a chasm, and then, after running underground about a hundred and thirty stadia, makes its exit near the sea.”

Timavus – the underground portion stretches quiteaways before getting to the waters of the Adriatic

“As for the dominion of Diomedes in the neighbourhood of this sea, not only the “Islands of Diomedes” bear witness thereto, but also the historical accounts of the Daunii and Argos Hippium, which I shall relate insofar as they may be historically useful; but I must disregard most of the mythical or false stories, as, for example, the stories of Phaethon, and of the Heliades that were changed into poplar-trees near the Eridanus (the Eridanus that exists nowhere on earth, although it is spoken of as near the Padus), and of the Electrides Islands that lie off the Padus, and of the guinea-fowls on them; for not one of these things is in that region, either. It is an historical fact, however, that among the Heneti certain honours have been decreed to Diomedes; and, indeed, a white horse is still sacrificed to him, and two precincts are still to be seen — one of them sacred to the Argive Hera and the other to the Aetolian Artemis.”

And later (Book VI, III):

“Now, however, Argyrippa is smaller; it was called Argos Hippium at first, then Argyrippa, and then by the present name Arpi. Both are said to have been founded by Diomedes. And as signs of the dominion of Diomedes in these regions are to be seen the Plain of Diomedes and many other things, among which are the old votive offerings in the temple of Athene at Luceria — a place which likewise was in ancient times a city of the Daunii, but is now reduced — and, in the sea near by, two islands that are called the Islands of Diomedes, of which one is inhabited, while the other, it is said, is desert; on the latter, according to certain narrators of myths, Diomedes was caused to disappear, and his companions were changed to birds, and to this day, in fact, remain tame and live a sort of human life, not only in their orderly ways but also in their tameness towards honorable men and in their flight from wicked and knavish men. But I have already mentioned the stories constantly told among the Heneti about this hero and the rites which are observed in his honour. It is thought that Sipus also was founded by Diomedes, which is about one hundred and forty stadia distant from Salapia … In Daunia, on a hill by the name of Drium, are to be seen two hero-temples: one, to Calchas, on the very summit, where those who consult the oracle sacrifice to his shade a black ram and sleep in the hide, and the other, to Podaleirius, down near the base of the hill, this temple being about one hundred stadia distant from the sea; and from it flows a stream which is a cure-all for diseases of animals. In front of this gulf is a promontory, Garganum, which extends towards the east for a distance of three hundred stadia into the high sea; doubling the headland, one comes to a small town, Urium, and off the headland are to be seen the Islands of Diomedes. This whole country produces everything in great quantity, and is excellent for horses and sheep; but though the wool is softer than the Tarantine, it is not so glossy. And the country is well sheltered, because the plains lie in hollows. According to some, Diomedes even tried to cut a canal as far as the sea, but left behind both this and the rest of his undertakings only half-finished, because he was summoned home and there ended his life. This is one account of him; but there is also a second, that he stayed here till the end of his life; and a third, the aforesaid mythical account, which tells of his disappearance in the island; and as a fourth one might set down the account of the Heneti, for they too tell a mythical story of how he in some way came to his end in their country, and they call it his apotheosis.”

You can read more about the Veneti of the Adriatic here.

So we seem to have the worship of Diomedes by the Veneti…

Is Diomedes Jason?

Well, for many years Jason was equated with Diomedes…

In 1711, Abbe Antoine Banier claimed that “[Chiron] taught [Jason] the Sciences, which he himself professed, especially Medicine, and gave him for that Reason the name of Jason, instead of Diomedes, which he had before.”

This was repeated as fact by many subsequent scholars. What is the source of this information?

Apparently, it is this:

“When Jason became a man and had learned from Chiron the healing art, he was called Jason, having first been called Dolomedes.”

This is from the 1581 edition of a Natali Conti Mythologiae. However, the first edition of the same (in the year 1567) did not contain the last clause.

It seems that Conti added this, misreading

Winifred Warren Wilson claimed in 1910 that in the 1581 edition Conti added new material (from Apollonius of Rhodes), and misread the Greek word δολόμηδες (“crafty”) as a proper name and then attributed it to Jason – as a proper name of Jason’s. And then Dolomedes became Diomedes. How? Well, apparently there was a misprint of Diomedes for Dolomedes in subsequent editions of Comes’ treatise. More on this on a site by this guy (yes, he is Jason too) who claims that there are no ancient sources equating Jason with Diomedes.

If this is true then the story ends right there and the temple to Diomedes is not any temple to Jason. And so the Slovenian Venetologists lose (at least one argument)…

Enter the Dragon

But… did you know that (according to the website for the Slovenian capital Ljubljana:

“Once upon a time, Greek hero Jason and his Argonaut comrades stole a golden fleece, the coat of a golden ram, from the King of Colchis on the Black Sea. On board the Argo they fled their pursuers and found themselves at the mouth of the River Danube instead of going south towards the Aegean Sea and their Greek homeland. There was no way back, so they went on, up the Danube and then along the River Ljubljanica. They had to stop at the source of the Ljubljanica and overwintered here. They then took the Argo apart and in the spring carried it on their shoulders to the Adriatic coast, where they put it back together again and went on their way. According to the legend, on their arrival between what is now Vrhnika and Ljubljana, the Argonauts came across a large lake with a marsh alongside. Here lived a terrible marsh dragon that Jason killed after a heroic struggle. The monster would have been the Ljubljana dragon. It is said that Jason should have been the first real Ljubljana citizen.“

Of course, Jason actually did encounter a dragon – Ladon (Lada?) – who had just been defeated by Hercules but was still twitching (Apollonius of Rhodes’ Argonautica). And is there any connection to Krak of Wawel?

After all we do know that the word a..i.su.n. (accusative) for “God” does appear among the Venetic inscriptions. And does Iazze really mean “I” (ia se)?

So how old is this Slovenian legend? Older than Conti’s misprint or not?

And here is another interesting thing: a river mentioned in ancient times (including later in the Getica – ad Pontem Sontii) that bears a striking similarity to Jason’s name: its Slovene name is Soča but, at various times, it went in antiquity by Aesontius, Sontius, and Isontius then – as per Marko Snoj – super Sontium (in 507–11), a flumine Isontio (1028), in Lisonçum (1261), an die Ysnicz (1401), and an der Snicz (ca. 1440).

Snoj suggests that the Latin (and Romance) Sontius was probably based on the substrate (!) name *Aisontia, presumably derived from the PIE root *Hei̯s- ‘swift, rushing’, referring to a quickly moving river (or the pre-Romance (!) root *ai̯s- ‘water, river’.

Other Mountains of Jassa

PublishedFebruary 10, 2016 Post authortorino

Incidentally, that there were other Jesza mountains (and not just our Jassarfjöllum) we know, for example, from the following:

The G.K. refers to Görzer Kreis which is the German name for Gorica (Slovene)/Gorizia (Italian). Wee do not know where “Valzano” should be located. There is a Bolzano or Bozen in Italy and it probably does have a Slavic origin but it is far from Gorica. In any event, for the curious here are some maps:

Conversion of the Carantanians – Part I

PublishedDecember 19, 2015 Post authortorino

The Conversio Bagoariorum et Carantanorum is a work of the Archbishopric of Salzburg – existing in nine manuscripts. It was written in the 870s (the earliest remaining manuscript come to us from the 11th/12th century) with the apparent purpose of justifying Salzburg’s dominance over Bavaria, Carantania and Pannonia. The context was the trial at Regensburg of Methodius – then a papal emissary and also a representative of Byzantium. Methodius tried to preach Christianity to the Slavs in these territories, thereby infringing upon the claims of Salzburg. The author of the Conversio is at pains to demonstrate that these lands had always been “given” to Salzburg to indoctrinate and that Methodius, as an interloper, should stick to indoctrinating pagans somewhere else. As a consequence of the trial Methodius was held in captivity for over two years.

All that is background – of interest to the historian of the Christian churches but of little concern to those interested in Slav origins. What interests the latter are pieces of information that the Conversio contains about events in the region and about its peoples. For example, Samo, who here is referred to not as a Frank but as a Slav (Temporibus gloriosi regis Francorum Dagoberti Samo nominee quid am Sclavus manens in Quarantanis fuit dux gentis illius) – this is contrary to Fredegar’s chronicle (but somewhat consistent with the Gesta Dagoberti I regis Francorum – a work of the beginning of the 9th century from which the references to Samo are probably borrowed in the Conversio).

The first two chapters of the Conversio deal with the Bavarians. We leave them out of this piece. We include chapter 3 through 6 in part I here. We also include the so-called Excerptum de Karantanis. Chapters 7 through 14 we will describe later.

Chapter 3

“Until now it was written how the Bavarians became Christians and of the names of the Bishops and Abbots in the Saltzburg bishopric.”

“Now it is to add how the Slavs who are called Carantanians and their neighbors were taught the Holy Faith and became Christians and also how the Huns drove out the Romans, Goths and Gepids out of Lower Pannonia and took over the country until the Franks and Bavarians together with the Carantanians fought them [i.e., the Huns] in many battles and finally defeated.”

“Those, however, who did not refuse the Faith and who received Baptism, were made tributaries of the kings and they remain in the country to this day against the payment of [such] tribute.”

Chapter 4

“Now we should provide a summary report of the Carantanians. In the days of the glorious King of the Franks Dagobert, there lived among the Carantanians a Slav by the name of Samo who was the duke of that people. He had the arriving merchants of King Dagobert killed and robbed them of the King’s money. When King Dagobert found out about this, he sent his army and ordered reprisals for the damage done to him by this Samo. And so his men did and they made the Carantanians into subjects of the King.”

“Not much later the Huns began to heavily oppress these Carantanians during a violent revolt. Their [Carantanians’] duke was at that time [a man by the name of] Boruth and he informed the Bavarians that an army of Huns will come against them [Carantanians] and he begged [them] to come to his aid. These appeared hastily, drove out the Huns, reassured the Carantanians [or reassured themselves of the loyalty of the Carantanians] and made them and their neighbors servants of the [Frankish] Kings. Thereafter, they led away hostages with them to Bavaria. Among them there came the son of Boruth by the name of Cacatius, who his father asked to be raised as and to be made a Christian. And so it happened. And the same he [Boruth] demanded of his brother’s son [by the name of] Cheitmar. After the death of Boruth, the Bavarians on the order of the Franks and the pleas of these Slavs [i.e., Carantanians] sent the already Christian Cacatius back [to Carantania] and these [Carantanians] made him into a duke. He died, however, in the third year after [his return]. Now then, Cheitmar – who had [also] been made a Christian – was given back to these people upon the permission of the Lord King Pippin and upon their pleas [to do so]. And priest Lupo (who had been placed by the Salzburg bishopric on the island Chemingi which was also called Auua) gave him [i.e., Chaitmar] his nephew Maioranus who had just taken his own priestly vows. Since this priest Lupo was the other’s [i.e., Maioranus’] godfather, he taught him that he [Maioranus] should humbly submit himself to the teachings of the Salzburg monastery on how to fulfill his Christian duty.”

“These people [Carantanians] received Chaitmar and gave him the duchy. But that one [Chaitmar] had with him Maioranus who had taken his priestly vows in the Salzburg abbey. And this one [Maioranus] exhorted him [i.e., Chaitmar] to lean his head – in the service of God – towards the monastery. And that one [i.e., Chaitmar] made it so and promised to serve the bishopric. And so he did this and served there yearly and always – for as long as he lived – he received from there teaching and instruction on how he ought to fullfill his duty as a Christian.”

Chapter 5

“After some time had passed, the aforementioned duke [Chaitmar] had asked Bishop Virgil to visit the tribespeople and to strengthen them in their Faith. But this one [Virgil] could not do so and so, to teach that people, he sent in his place his bishop by the name of Modestus and with him his priests Watto, Reginbertus, Cozharius and Latinus as also the Deacon Ekihardus with other clergymen. He also gave Modestus permission to consecrate churches and (in accordance with canonical regulations) to install clergy; on the other hand he [Modestus] was not supposed to claim anything that would contradict the rules of the Holy Father. They came to the Carantanians, consecrated there a church of Holy Mary’s, another one in the town of Liburnia and one ad Udrimas and so also in many other places.”

“Modestus remained there till the end of his life. When the bishop passed away, the duke Cheitmar asked once again of Bishop Virgil whether it would be possible for him [Virgil] to come to him [Cheitmar]. However, this one [Virgil] refused since an uprising took place that we call carnula. But he made up his mid and sent there priest Latinus. Not much later there took place another uprising and so the priest Latinus once again left that [country]. After the end of the uprising, Bishop Virgil sent once again priest Latinus and after him priest Warmannus. Since after the death of Cheitmar another uprising took place, there was no priest there for several years until the Duje Waltunc sent emissaries once again to Bishop Virgil and asked [him] to send priests there. [Virgil] sent them thereafter priest Heimo and priest Reginald as also Deacon Maioranus with other clergymen.”

“Soon thereafter he sent there once again that priest Heimo as also the priests Dupliter and Maioranus and other clergymen with them. Further he sent them priests Gozharius, Maioranus and Erchanbertus; after them the priests Reginbaldus and Reginharius; and then priests Maioranus and Augustinus; and once more Reginbaldus and Gundharius. And so it happened during [the time of] Bishop Virgil’s.”

Chapter 6

“Likewise, it is [fitting] to briefly say something of the Avars. In the old times the Romans controlled lower Pannonia – south of the Danube and the neighboring regions. They built there for their defense castles and fortifications as also many other structures, as one can see to this day. They even subjugated the Goths and the Gepids. But after 377 years after the birth of the Lord and thereafter, the Huns left their seats in the desolate lands north of the Danube and chased out the Romans, Goths and the Gepids. Nevertheless, there live there some of the Gepids till this day. Then, however, as the Huns were driven out, there came the Slavs and began to settle the different regions in the Danube lands. Now, however, we want to tell how the Huns were driven off from there, how the Slavs began to settle [there] and [how] that part of Pannonia was attached to the Salzburg diocese.”

“In the year of our Lord 796, did the Emperor Charles [Charlemagne] namely determine that Count Erich and with him a great army should drive out the Huns. They almost did not resist and, through the aforementioned count, submitted themselves to the Emperor Charles. In the same year, Emperor Charles sent his son Pippin with a great army into the land of the Huns. He [Pippin] advanced to their famous settlement – that was called Rinch – where all their dukes once more submitted themselves to Pippin. As he returned back, [Pippin] entrusted it to Bishop Arn of Salzburg until the arrival of his father – the Emperor Charles – to govern and to teach the Christian faith to those people of the Huns and Slavs that remained and to organize church life in the part of Pannonia on Lake Balaton [Pelissa] and on the other side of the River Hrapa and from there up to the River Drava and further until the [place where] Drava flows into the Danube, as far as his [Bishop Arn’s] power reached.”

“Later in year 803 , Emperor Charles came to Bavaria and came in the month of October to Saltzburg and [there] repeated and confirmed in the presence of many of his followers by virtue of his absolute power the above-mentioned gift of his son’s and determined that it should be valid [and] unbreakable for all time.”

Chapter 7

In much the similar way did Bishop Arn, who followed Virgil, fulfill the duties of the pastoral ministry of the Salzburg bishopric. He ordained priests everywhere and sent them into the land of the Slavs and indeed not just to Carantanian lands but too to Lower Pannonia to those dukes and counts just as Virgil had done before him. One of them was called Ingo. He was beloved and valued by the people on account of his wisdom. All the people followed him and no one dared to ignore his orders even when receiving a blank page [of orders]. He also acted in astonishing ways… [to come]

Excerptum de Karantanis

“Bishop Modestus was the first to undertake missionary activity amongst the Carantanians. He was sent and consecrated by Holy Virgil during the reign of Pippin, King of the Franks. After that one – in the presence of Emperor Charlemagne and Archbishop Arn – there was sent and consecrated Bishop Theodoric. After that one Bishop Otto was consecrated by Archbishop Aderamm. After that one, Bishop Hosbald under Archbishops Liupramn and Adelwin. Pope Nicholas wrote two canonical letters to this Osbald (which [letters] are preserved in the body of decrees. After that one, some time passed before such time that a Slav by the name of Methodius came out of the land of Istria and Dalmatia; who invented Slavic letters and celebrated mass in Slavic and thereby replaced the Latin [mass]. Finally, he escaped from the Carantanian lands to Moravia and died there.”

“During the time of Dagobert, the King of the Franks, the Carantanians were ruled by duke Samo, after him Boruch, after him Karast[us] and after him Chenmar[us] after him Waltunc. Likewise there ruled under Charlemagne and his successors Priwizlauga, Cemicas, Zpoimar, Etgar.”

“After the expulsion of the Huns, the following counts were placed in the east of Bavaria by Charlemagne and his successors: Gerold[us], Gotteram[us], as the second Werehar[ius], the third Albric[us], the fourth Gotfrid[us], the fifth Gerold[us], and after these, the dukes Helmwin[us], Albar[ius], Pado, and the above mentioned dukes of the Carantanians were placed under these counts and dukes.”

On the Moinu-Winidi & the Ratanz-Winidi & the Vindelici

PublishedApril 13, 2015 Post authortorino

It is true that we have not posted all the early reference to Slavs as Wends/ Winids/Windische. We’ve got to keep you coming back after all. For the earlier version of this topic see here. And now back to the Wends:

Part I

From the year 846 (a document from the time of Louis the German) we have the following information (regarding an earlier time around the year 793-794 or so):

“Qualiter… domnus Karolus… episcopis praecepisset, ut in terra Sclavorum, qui sedent inter Moinum et Radantiam fluvios, qui vocantur Moinuwinidi et Ratanzwinidi [or Radanzwinidi] una cum comitibus, qui super eosdem sclavos constituit erant, procurrassent, ut inibi sicut in ceteris christianorum locis ecclesiae construerentur, quatenus ille populus noviter ad christianitatem conversus habere potuisset, ubi et baptismum perciperet et praedicationem audiret….”

(Moinum/Moinu refers to the River Main. Radantiam/Ratanz refers to Radęca or, as it is called these days, River Regnitz/Rednitz).

It tells of how “Charlemagne sent his bishops into the “terra Sclavorum”, i.e., the land of the Slavs who live between the Main and the Regnitz and who were, therefore, called the Main-Wends and the Regenz-Wends.” It is part of an order by Charlemagne to the Würzburg Bishop Bernwelf (768 or769 – 800) to build fourteen missionary churches among these Slavs.

Wilhelm Obermüllerʼs Deutsch-Keltisches, geschichtlich-geographisches Wörterbuch explains their placement by asserting that they arrived there as conquerors after Samo’s victory over Dagobert in the year 630 but this seems an anticipatory argument as no source, including Fredegar’s Chronicle, says anything of the sort – the Chronicle merely notes that there were raids into Frankish lands following the Wendish victory at Wogastisburg – the suggestion of a permanent settlement seems to have been made up by Obermüller.

What’s more other sources such as the Annales Mettenses Priores seem to indicate vaguely Slavic names with -in endings such as:

Mohin (the name for the River Main!); and

Wirzin-burg (or Wirsin-burg)

We include here a map showing the presumed location of this land with the red line showing the River Main, the blue line the River Regnitz and the slightly darker blue line showing its tributary the River Rednitz. The pins point to various “Wind” towns in the area: Burgwindheim, Bad Windsheim, Windsfeld, Windsbach and Windelsbach. We let you find Pommersfelden (probably in someways tied to Pomerania but maybe not) by yourself. Perhaps the area is just very windy?

Part II

So that is that – but now take a look at this map which we put together thinking of those other Vindi or rather Vinde-lici discussed by Strabo.

a l m o s t there

Vindelici were supposedly a Celtic tribe – the Celtic designation often seemingly being that dumping place where you put things that are clearly not Germanic but that – or so you think – cannot possibly be Slavic (their city was Kambodunon a rather Celtic name though!). Yet in his Vergilii Aeneidem commentary (Commentaries on Virgil’s Aeneid), we are told by Marcus Servius Honoratus that the Vindelici were Liburnians. He says at paragraph 243:

“illyricos penetrare sinus Antenor non Illyricum, non Liburniam, sed Venetiam tenuit. ideo autem Vergilius dicit ‘Illyricos sinus’, quod inde venit quidam Henetus rex, qui Venetiam tenuit, a cuius nomine Henetiam dictam posteri Venetiam nominaverunt. tutus ideo tutus, quia Raeti Vindelici ipsi sunt Liburni, saevissimi admodum populi, contra quos missus est Drusus. hi autem ab Amazonibus originem ducunt, ut etiam Horatius dicit “quibus mos unde deductus per omne tempus Amazonia securi dextras obarmet, quaerere distuli” . hoc ergo nunc ad augmentum pertinet, quod tutus est etiam inter saevos populos.”

Maurus Servius Honoratus. In Vergilii carmina comentarii. Servii Grammatici qui feruntur in Vergilii carmina commentarii; recensuerunt Georgius Thilo et Hermannus Hagen. Georgius Thilo. Leipzig. B. G. Teubner. 1881.

A number of things are of interest here:

we’ve got another Vind tribe in its own area of Vindelicia (previously discussed);

the Vind tribe’s (or tribes’) area of settlement includes the town of Bregenz (shown in red above) on the shore (breg) of Lake Venetus (previously discussed);

all of those are remarkably close to the area of the Veneti (previously discussed);

Now what was not previously discussed (in detail) are the following facts:

all of those places/peoples are incredibly close to the seats of the Moinu-winidi and Ratanz-winidi;

the river that runs nearby the seats of the Vindelici towards the Danube is the Lech (shown in red above); and

the Liburnians are a people of unclear ethnicity who were later “absorbed” by the Croats.

Specifically, Liburnia is in Croatia and it was here that the Croats were supposedly invited at the beginning of the 7th century as per Constantine Porphyrogenitus’ De Administrando Imperio. More interesting, however, is that the Polish chronicler, Jan Dlugosz stated that the founder of the Poles – Lech – came from this area – specifically the mysterious Psary castle. In fact, there is even an island here that is named Krk – somewhat like Cracow. Krk is the former Roman Curicta but the city itself was Liburnian before being conquered by the Romans. It also later fell to the Avars. Interestingly, the allegedly Slavic R1a1 Y-dna was found at the highest concentrations in Croatia (except for Osijek) exactly at Krk.

Whether it matters that Cornelius Tacitus also wrote as follows:

“… some of the Suevi sacrifice to Isis [Yassa? Remember, in the statutes Cunradi it is written ysaya]. Whence the cause and origin of the foreign rite I have not ascertained, except that the symbol itself, in the shape of a Liburnian ship, indicates that the religion was brought from abroad.”

Is another question.

Part III

Finally, we ought to point something else out. No one denies that the Germans (whoever they were back then) called their neighboring Slavs Wenden or Winden. It has been suggested that this was a carryover from the Sarmatian Veneti whose name was “transferred” to the Slavs by the Germans. Others have suggested that the Sarmatian Veneti were Slavs. We have had a number of posts on this topic and we will not regurgitate that here.

However, now we have said “let us not forget the Vinde–lici” who usually are not identified with Slavs. After all here you have a case of a “d” without anyone having to do any d>t and/or t>d transformations. These people were Vinde and the Slavs were Windishe (the “v” and “w”, to state the obvious, are pronounced the same – there was no “w” in the time of the Vinde-lici).

And you got your -lici as in, maybe, lechy.

But there is something else. If you look at the map below you will notice that the actual Vindelici are placed West of the River Lech (originally written by Latin writers as Liccus, i.e., Licc plus the Latin -us suffix). That territory is now known as (Eastern) Swabia and on the connections (?) between Slavs, i.e., Suoveeane and the Suevi who are identified with the Schwaben of Swabia we’ve already spilt much ink on this website.

In fact, these days the Bodesee whose Obersee portion was previously referred to as Lacus Venetus is referred to, on occasion, as the Suevian Sea.

So were the Vinde-lici the ancestors of Lechs/Lechites/Lachs, i.e., Poles? Were they simply Winds called Lici? Was the fact that Mieszko is described by Widukind of Corvey as leader of the Licikaviki somehow relevant here? Were the Windi-lici driven down the Lech river North by Tiberius after their defeat on Lake Constance.

(Speaking of which there is also this curious reference).

Others have suggested that the Veneti were the Eastern Slavs, the name being Finnish or Ugrian (the White (?) Ugrians having driven deep into what is today Belarus and Ukraine). The same people claimed that the Suevi were the Western Slavs.

But here we now have a connection between these Western Slavs (who were referred to as Wenden but not Veneti, the former name being German, the latter not) and their self-given name of Lechites.

In other words, all agree that Wends were a type of Slavs in the 600s but the connection between the Vinde-lici as a type of Suevi at the turn of the millennium is seemingly ignored. If you were willing to admit that connection there would, of course, be a second question to ask, as to whether Vinde-lici really are the future Wends and the Suevi, the future Suoveanne or Slavs (we say “future” in a historiographic sense; obviously these people may already have been referred to as Wends and may have referred to themselves as Slavs but writers of that time only pick up Vindelici and Suevi).

Finally, recall that Nestor mentioned not only that the Slavs came from the Danube area but that, specifically, they were Noricans. Noricum is right next to Vindelicia (see above map). Of course, everyone assumes that when he says the Vlachs attacked/harassed the Slavs he is referring to the 600s. But what if he was referring to the war on the Vinde-lici and their allies 600 years earlier? Those too would have been Vlachs as in Italians.

Curious – those Pripet Marshes just do not look so convincing anymore.

So are we on to something or are we just pulling a Däniken?

On the Freising Manuscripts’ Translations

PublishedDecember 26, 2014 Post authortorino

Having dealt with some things Czech, others Polish and a bit of Russian and Croatian, we decided to take a detour into the lands of Slovenia. We begin by taking a quick look at the so-called Freising Manuscripts.

The Freising Manuscripts are Slovenian manuscripts and are the oldest Slavic-language documents written in Latin, likely created before the year 1000. Perhaps they written by Bishop Abraham in Freising, perhaps not. Currently, at the Bavarian State Library, they consist of three separate texts. They are available for viewing here.

The above is the first page of the third manuscript. We note the translation of the beginning in Slovene and in English is as follows:

Slovene (this is the modern translation of these ancient words):

“Jaz se odpovem zlodeju, in vsem njegovim delom, in vsem njegovim lepotijam.”

English:

“I renounce the devil and all his works, and all his ornaments.”

What the language actually says is the following:

“Iazze zaglagolo zlodeiu. Iuzem iego delom. Iuzem iego lepocam.”

Now, the first interesting thing here is that zlodeiu is interpreted as an “evil doer” reminding us of the older meaning of this word (this is correct as the “zlodei” was to be contrasted with the “dobrodei”) which now may mean something else, e.g., “thief” in Polish.

Secondly, notwithstanding the translation, there is no devil or rather the word “devil” is not used. Just “Zlodei”. In fact, “dei” may actually be interpreted here as a god, specifically, a bad god, i.e., a zlo dei. It is curious whether there is a connection between the word deus and the indo-european verb to do – perhaps, as in maker or doer.

Thirdly, the quality of the writing is remarkable. Spacing, in particular is nice, airy and altogether generous as most words are properly and exactly separated with a nice roomy, yes, space (compare that to the incredibly annoyingly chicken scratched manuscripts of Lucas from Great Kozmin). A few words are stuck together – mostly the word “and”, i.e., “i”. Two-letter words, however are usually separated from others. The word “I” seemingly appears in the text once only (this is partly because of verb conjugation that does not exist in English): as in “Jaz” then “se” in the above text. Indeed, in modern Slovenian “I am” is “Jaz sem”. Is that what “Iazze” means?